tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post5762361530149012888..comments2024-03-28T12:40:14.627+00:00Comments on MOODY WRITING: Hunky Dorymooderinohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01523337588830695638noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-78672497561321724112011-10-28T16:28:26.692+01:002011-10-28T16:28:26.692+01:00I have always wanted to write a book from a male p...I have always wanted to write a book from a male point of view. In fact, the only cash I've ever gotten out of my fiction was $150 for a short story I wrote as a guy. I was a sophomore in college and to be frank, I enjoyed it thoroughly. It didn't feel like work, at all.<br /><br />Do you think switching gender perspective might bring about some sort of sympathetic writing that is not so one-dimensional and unrealistic? As interested as I am in trying, I'm actually pretty intimidated at the prospect specifically because, as a woman, I don't and can't have a true grasp of the male way of moving through the world, experientially.<br /><br />How does one increase their sensitivity to the other gender's way of thinking, judging and understanding?dry runhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05945049279831073596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-52062602161415761382011-10-13T17:58:02.872+01:002011-10-13T17:58:02.872+01:00Such a good point. I think this is exactly what ne...Such a good point. I think this is exactly what needs to happen to round out male characters. Gotta keep things real.<br /><br /><a href="http://fromsarahwithjoy.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Sarah Allen<br />(my creative writing blog)</a>Sarah Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01185278849400551014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-34826453869777516552011-10-11T09:11:50.475+01:002011-10-11T09:11:50.475+01:00@Margo-I can see why the male stereotype is popula...@Margo-I can see why the male stereotype is popular, but it feels like that way of writing dominates a bit too much and what you're left with is a cliche. And cliches are very effective at getting across an idea very quickly and clearly, yet they are frowned upon because they are bad writing.<br /><br />And becasue the love story tends to be more front and centre it highlights the cliche much more than teh equivalent female character in a predominantly male book.mooderinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01523337588830695638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-13377837483119259302011-10-10T19:15:06.534+01:002011-10-10T19:15:06.534+01:00@nutschell-thanks. I agree, flawless is too easy a...@nutschell-thanks. I agree, flawless is too easy and too dull.<br /><br />@laoch-thanks for the link, very interesting.<br /><br />@the sistehood-thanks for that link too.<br /><br />@donna-especially if they're power walking.<br /><br />@Darlyn-I think there are many romance books that do a good job of it, but they get a bit buried under the deluge.<br /><br />@Dale-is it an attractive moggy?<br /><br />@Melissa-I agree, they do seem to write them softer. We certainly have that side to us, but it's not quite as prominent as it's made out to be.<br /><br />@Ben-I have no problem with idealised roles being used in fiction, but when it becomes so dominant I begin to suspect something else going on. Some sort of manipulation. Images of women (especially those used to sell stuff to women) are aslo retarded.mooderinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01523337588830695638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-22703835694440702512011-10-10T18:27:55.346+01:002011-10-10T18:27:55.346+01:00Speaking for most ladies, I think, we need to read...Speaking for most ladies, I think, we need to read a post like once in a while to get our heads back on straight.<br /><br />On the flip side, I think we love our unrealistic romances because we are all too familiar with what men really are - and how that doesn't line up with what we really want :) <br /><br />Romance is, after all, basically female fantasy.<br /><br />We pretty much know what male fantasy is, too.<br /><br />Easy to see why end up mocking each other.<br /><br />But really, I liked this post. I love my romantic fantasies, but I love a good sharp dose of reality too.Margo Berendsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03476308235642890474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-87353904604928387722011-10-10T16:52:03.649+01:002011-10-10T16:52:03.649+01:00I think you got a point, mood. It's not love t...I think you got a point, mood. It's not love that men are against. There are some beautiful love stories. My favorite probably being Cyrano De Bergerac, by french writer Edmond Rostand. <br /><br />But you know, the general opinion came to lend a LOT of weight to the female vision of what a man should be. The selfless, dedicated guy who forgets himself and gives in to plans of homeowning, constant renovation and family care. To me, this has as much credibility as the stay-at-home wife stereotype in the sixties. Men are men, but they are often giving in to the way they're portrayed.<br /><br />Also, I think this has a lot to do with romance novels being about desire and idealisation, more than they are about actual love. It always ends with the first kiss.Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11483490020980574428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-28627278846752467872011-10-10T08:04:28.436+01:002011-10-10T08:04:28.436+01:00Wow, what a great post. I write romance-y stories,...Wow, what a great post. I write romance-y stories, though more erotica. I don't believe in the sterotypical romance hero who hasn't had any in long time. Nor are my guys all beefcakes who look like gym posters, though they are good looking. I think women tend to write men softer. They have them notice things that guys don't notice. And you are so right about avoiding of deep dark secrets. This has to be one my favorite posts of yours. They're always fantastic, but this one is wow!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04443736284850057306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-29509985109777372962011-10-10T03:29:52.549+01:002011-10-10T03:29:52.549+01:00Remind me to hide my cat from you.Remind me to hide my cat from you.Danehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04601710601842173190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-54354343449911182612011-10-09T11:05:12.054+01:002011-10-09T11:05:12.054+01:00Wow. Your post just put a lot of things into persp...Wow. Your post just put a lot of things into perspective. I never found much to complain about when it comes to the seemingly-perfect male characters of romance novels, but this post makes me want to grab every romance novel on my shelf and examine it.Darlyn (Your Move, Dickens)https://www.blogger.com/profile/00979296421309409564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-37763333624965178612011-10-09T04:26:12.419+01:002011-10-09T04:26:12.419+01:00Extremes can be comical, especially when they walk...Extremes can be comical, especially when they walk down the street. ;)Donna K. Weaverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15763832177263927311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-72208404326722532992011-10-08T23:41:30.062+01:002011-10-08T23:41:30.062+01:00Mood, at the Sisterhood blog we talked extensively...Mood, at the Sisterhood blog we talked extensively about this subject a few months ago. You may find it interesting: <br /><br />http://divinesecretsofthewritingsisterhood.blogspot.com/2011/07/she-says-he-says-gender-and-writing.html<br /><br />(check out comments section for more discussion.)The Sisterhoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09889577041903181315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-42701729794649740092011-10-08T19:41:45.455+01:002011-10-08T19:41:45.455+01:00Unrelated to your post (although I thought it was ...Unrelated to your post (although I thought it was quite interesting), I thought you might find this article worth reading: <br /><br />http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/10/listen-to-this-hemingways-short-moving-nobel-prize-speech/Sultanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06506141014376919585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-51138666798143479652011-10-08T02:25:48.941+01:002011-10-08T02:25:48.941+01:00I love this post! Certainly helps with developing ...I love this post! Certainly helps with developing my male characters. I love real characters with real flaws. <br /><br /><br />happy weekend!<br /><br />nutschell<br />www.thewritingnut.comnutschellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10967710710805174781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-9419207674152694142011-10-08T00:46:31.119+01:002011-10-08T00:46:31.119+01:00@Ted-I'm not saying guys like that don't e...@Ted-I'm not saying guys like that don't exist, I'm saying those guys aren't the only ones that exist.<br /><br />@Sophia-porn is a good comparison. It fulfils a need, is very lucrative, but no porn director is considered a good film director. It serves a different function, which means it can be a lot more basic, but it doesn't get the plaudits either.<br /><br />@Javid-a good example of a male writer using the same trick.<br /><br />@Donna-you can see that my example of men who can't control their urges is extreme and ridiculous, but the opposite extreme, a man who is pure and chaste is equally ridiculous. Extreme's end up being comical is my point.<br /><br />@Anne-cool, I always wanted to be an honorary sista.<br /><br />@Michael-lol, indeed. I ain't knocking it, I'm just saying maybe there's more than one way to skin a cat.mooderinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01523337588830695638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-71639832200663354682011-10-08T00:34:57.234+01:002011-10-08T00:34:57.234+01:00@Botanist-I think caricatures are going to end up ...@Botanist-I think caricatures are going to end up being funny, expecially if they're not in a comedy.<br /><br />@Nastia-I agree about those archetypes in folk tales, although they are primarily aimed at children. <br /><br />@Christa-I'm not suggesting the make characters should be changed to suit male readers, I'm just answering why female writers aren't respected. If you write shallow characters because they are popular and work for the market that's fine. But popularity doesn't equal quality, watch any tv soap.<br /><br />@Michael-the only defence is that women like reading about guys like that. They also like to read magazines that make them feel ugly and insecure. Go figure.<br /><br />@LD - it's not that they jump anything that moves, it's that they have an interest that goes beyond pining for one girl for no apparent reason. We're easily distracted.mooderinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01523337588830695638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-60540815827172162552011-10-07T22:35:50.305+01:002011-10-07T22:35:50.305+01:00Great post Mood. I agree with what you've said...Great post Mood. I agree with what you've said here and think that the lack of realism in men may be what sells the fiction in the first place (to women) and why men refuse to read it. But romance is a fantasy right? Who are we to throw tomatoes at something when in fact, it pays the bills and is perhaps the inspiration for many a vibrator sale in an adult store.Michael Offutt, Phantom Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10557969104886174930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-5931562620454687092011-10-07T14:21:32.354+01:002011-10-07T14:21:32.354+01:00Yeah, right on sista! Great great post. Everyone...Yeah, right on sista! Great great post. Everyone has some deep dark secret that has to be exposed. No character can be all sunshine and lollipops all the time. Character flaws are fabulous!Anne Gallagherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05816355522284492131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-48525569875269230272011-10-07T13:57:24.476+01:002011-10-07T13:57:24.476+01:00If what you is say (with a pretty broad brush sinc...If what you is say (with a pretty broad brush since I know guys who have some self control) is correct, then that's exactly why the guys in romance novels are like that. Women want to be thought of as more than just a piece of ass and a relief to a guy who treats what should be a meaningful experience like it's not any different than taking a piss.<br /><br />Jessie said:<br />"Second, for real? Are you really, honestly saying that men can't NOT have sex? That you're basically yanked around by your genitalia all your lives? Men often ridicule women for being "hormonal," but at least we take pills for that shit and do something about it--where's the pill that helps a guy to not be hump-happy and chasing everything with a x chromosome? I don't believe that guys can't control it."<br /><br />I agree.Donna K. Weaverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15763832177263927311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-31961315212516183902011-10-07T12:42:40.688+01:002011-10-07T12:42:40.688+01:00I like this post. So true. In my opinion Noah of &...I like this post. So true. In my opinion Noah of "The Notebook" had been described as a perfect man. Nothing else, he is just perfect! That's why I didn't like it very much. Thanks :)Javid Suleymanlihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12430891752669525863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-84742122399405749142011-10-07T11:16:08.293+01:002011-10-07T11:16:08.293+01:00Ever heard the saying that romance fiction is porn...Ever heard the saying that romance fiction is porn for women? We (they) idealise men as much more emotional and committed and Prince Charming-ish, and in porn men idealise women as temptresses who want nothing more than to fulfill men's fantasies. So the romance genre fulfils women's desire for emotional satisfaction and porn caters to men's sexual satisfaction. Huge generalisations are huge, but you get my point: most romance really isn't written for men. I second LD's point about reading for escapism and women reading romance as a way to escape the reality of men. Disney was wrong, ladies.<br /><br />The romance that did have the guy actually playing the field and the woman really having to win the guy would be a lot more interesting than the cliche of falling in lust (call it love if you want, but let's not kid ourselves) and then being torn apart by a misunderstanding that could be solved by one honest conversation.Sophiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17926811798176739307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-43470281012257891852011-10-07T08:45:33.501+01:002011-10-07T08:45:33.501+01:00Not bad, but I do see some good looking guys who r...Not bad, but I do see some good looking guys who remain available because they happen to be very shy. That's the story of my life, anyhow (not saying I'm gorgeous, but I'm also not bad looking). Some guys are just shy by nature, and it's not like women just come onto them often, even if they are decent looking. If I hadn't been set up on a blind date with the woman who became my wife 16 years ago, I'd probably still be single.Ted Crosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09022309459554237650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-89655524222482833552011-10-07T06:58:14.268+01:002011-10-07T06:58:14.268+01:00Well, if one of the reasons people read fiction is...Well, if one of the reasons people read fiction is to escape from reality, and reality is guys will jump anything that moves anytime they get the chance - then the brooding self-restrained hero serves the purpose. At least for people trying to escape that particular bit of reality. Don't you think?<br /><br />(yes, my tongue is firmly tucked into my cheek as well)LD Mastersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01202135756299574972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-1708727172436506072011-10-07T05:39:12.216+01:002011-10-07T05:39:12.216+01:00Hey, Mood,
It's nice to see the male POV abou...Hey, Mood,<br /><br />It's nice to see the male POV about women writing about men. Back in college I had been in a women's fiction lit class. I was one of two guys ... the rest feminists. The professor was an ULTRA feminist.<br /><br />Well, for months each book she assigned feature super strong women and cliched wimpy guys. A term paper was due and I had had enough so I turned in my paper featuring "The Degradation of the Male Hero in Twentieth Century Woman's fiction." The main focus .... I pointed out every whimpy. boring, dull, and far from real male character. Gave multiple points on each.<br /><br />The professor stayed up every night for the week until our next class. She couldn't prove me wrong and asked the females in the class if they could find ANYTHING. <br /><br />I had stumped them all. I received and A+. She even wanted to help me publish it. I never pursued it. But you are the first person who I have seen write on a similar subject.<br /><br />Thanks for reminding me of a wonderful time in my life.Michael Di Gesuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17047267262428143113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-80889390818568977682011-10-07T04:38:59.607+01:002011-10-07T04:38:59.607+01:00"When you create a guy that is unavailable, f..."When you create a guy that is unavailable, full of testosterone, and alone, you may see a strong, moody, hurt-by-the-one-he-loved-and-unable-to-love-again fella — I see a guy who probably goes home, watches too much internet porn, and then tries to rape the neighbour’s cat."<br /><br />---LMAO at this. Okay, but I think you are missing the point here. These romance books sell to a select market of WOMEN who want those kind of guys. You are right. They aren't real. But that is why women buy them. There is a craft to understanding your market (YA, romance, chicklit, whatever) that makes these archetypes come up over and over again. <br /><br />Dude, the reality is, I don't want you to read a romance book I write (I don't write them, but you get my meaning) because you and most dudes will hate it. I'm not writing for you. I'm writing for the thousands of women who want rich, brooding guys who just need a good woman to set them straight:)Christa Desirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15614441465633549710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1061937348591302555.post-4070898291171080492011-10-07T03:00:00.101+01:002011-10-07T03:00:00.101+01:00Typo! Heroine, not heroin. I hope the guy is not T...Typo! Heroine, not heroin. I hope the guy is not THAT bad after all....Nastiahttp://cyberspired.worpress.comnoreply@blogger.com